Consentus
Clan Forum => Debates => Debates archive => Topic started by: Red Flea on April 18, 2019, 08:23:39
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Wat leven we toch in een achterlijke wereld. Ik kon het even niet geloven. In 12 uur tijd is er meer dan 700 miljoen euro opgehaald om de Notre Dame te restaureren. Het is één van de meest populaire monumenten van de Franse hoofdstad, maar het is niets meer dan een gebouw! gemaakt van steen, hout etc.
Terwijl de hele wereld kijkt naar de kathedraal van Notre Dame, wordt er dagelijks gemiddeld 200 kilo plastic per seconde de zee in gedumpt.
Nog steeds sterven er elke dag gemiddeld 8500 kinderen van de honger. En smelt het ijs op de Noordpool verschrikkelijk snel.
Dagelijks trouwen er gemiddeld 41.000 meisjes die niet eens de leeftijd van 18 jaar hebben bereikt.
Elke dag kampen we met een vluchtelingen probleem
Nog steeds is er geen genezing voor diverse dodelijke ziektes, die dagelijks slachtoffers maken.
Moet ik nog doorgaan...
Ik heb de hoop in deze wereld al gelange tijd opgegeven. En deze gebeurtenis versterkt dit alleen maar meer.
Laten we ons zorgen maken over de toekomst, over wat we achterlaten aan onze kinderen,over wat we zijn en wat we willen zijn.
700 miljoen had geinvesteerd kunnen worden in het behouden van deze planeet. Wat heb je aan de Notre Dame, als de wereld langzaam afsterft.
#The post is in dutch. I will translate this later today.
Translation (Sourche: Google Translate)
What do we live in a backward world. I just couldn't believe it. In 12 hours, more than 700 million euros have been raised to restore the Notre Dame. It is one of the most popular monuments of the French capital, but it is nothing more than a building! made of stone, wood etc.
While the entire world looks at Notre Dame Cathedral, an average of 200 kilos of plastic per second is dumped into the sea every day.
Still, an average of 8,500 children die of hunger every day. And the ice in the North Pole melts terribly quickly.
Every day an average of 41,000 girls marry who have not even reached the age of 18.
Every day we have a refugee problem
There is still no cure for various deadly diseases that make victims every day.
Do I have to continue ...
I have given up hope in this world for a long time. And this event only reinforces this.
Let us worry about the future, about what we leave to our children, about what we are and what we want to be.
700 million could have been invested in preserving this planet. What good is Notre Dame, when the world slowly dies away.
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Yeah, it is kinda bizarre how billions are donated to restore a building while people die of starvation and lack of medical care. It's a fantastic building and I think it should be restored in due time, but the priorities are really messed up when a building is worth more than life.
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That's very interesting...
The rich who can simply donate millions into any cause they wish account for hardly even .01% of the world's population, yet we're demanding they pay for the waste (among other screw ups) that the other 99.9% of the world made? These people have ZERO obligation to donate anything at all, but when it's to something people don't like, they start calling foul telling them how to spend their money. It's their money that they worked hard to earn. Why do we feel the need to dictate how money that isn't even ours, is spent? If people are so concerned with the plastic and trash on the beaches, then grab a bag, go to a beach, and start picking it up. We need to stop relying on others with more to do everything for us. We're all equally responsible. Coral reefs, rain forests, and beehives are naturally occurring. No amount of money spent can reverse all the damage that has been done. I can't simply swim down to the Great Barrier Reef with a hammer and nails and start rebuilding it or somehow reverse the pollution in the atmosphere.
It starts with 1 person. Instead of telling others what they should do. People that really believe in something should take it upon themselves to start things off. When we start doing things, get friends involved - that's when a chain reaction starts. Telling people "Rebuild this" and "pay for that" thinking it's raising awareness; it's not.
There are plenty of worthy causes in this world to donate to, and different things are important to different people. It's quite possible that some of the people that donated to the cathedral, also donate to organizations as such. At the end of the day; if Notre Dame wasn't a religious structure - nobody would be complaining this much.
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That's very interesting...
The rich who can simply donate millions into any cause they wish account for hardly even .01% of the world's population, yet we're demanding they pay for the waste (among other screw ups) that the other 99.9% of the world made? These people have ZERO obligation to donate anything at all, but when it's to something people don't like, they start calling foul telling them how to spend their money. It's their money that they worked hard to earn. Why do we feel the need to dictate how money that isn't even ours, is spent? If people are so concerned with the plastic and trash on the beaches, then grab a bag, go to a beach, and start picking it up. We need to stop relying on others with more to do everything for us. We're all equally responsible. Coral reefs, rain forests, and beehives are naturally occurring. No amount of money spent can reverse all the damage that has been done. I can't simply swim down to the Great Barrier Reef with a hammer and nails and start rebuilding it or somehow reverse the pollution in the atmosphere.
It starts with 1 person. Instead of telling others what they should do. People that really believe in something should take it upon themselves to start things off. When we start doing things, get friends involved - that's when a chain reaction starts. Telling people "Rebuild this" and "pay for that" thinking it's raising awareness; it's not.
There are plenty of worthy causes in this world to donate to, and different things are important to different people. It's quite possible that some of the people that donated to the cathedral, also donate to organizations as such. At the end of the day; if Notre Dame wasn't a religious structure - nobody would be complaining this much.
I too think the Notre Dame must be restored to it's former glory.
But I think the priorities are fk'd up. Guess what will be used to restore it. Earth's resources. A shitload of it. Everyone is taking from this planet, but barely any are giving anything in return. I don't see a circle of life there. It's plain destruction.
If you put the age of the earth in a timespan of 24 hours. We (humans) are here for roughly 3 seconds. And now see what we fk'd up so far in this 3 seconds...
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Yeah I read something like that a few years back. Humans are less than a second or something.
But I get what you're saying, and you're totally right. These incredible structures use resources. I just find it so incredibly annoying that we put the issues of the world on other people's plate like it isn't their responsibility and expect everyone else to do something about it. Just because Elon Musk is doing a lot to try and improve the world we live in doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and do nothing. I do my best to get out and *DO* things. Donating money is good, but donating time is a much more valuable currency. It's one that we can't get back.
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Yeah I read something like that a few years back. Humans are less than a second or something.
But I get what you're saying, and you're totally right. These incredible structures use resources. I just find it so incredibly annoying that we put the issues of the world on other people's plate like it isn't their responsibility and expect everyone else to do something about it. Just because Elon Musk is doing a lot to try and improve the world we live in doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and do nothing. I do my best to get out and *DO* things. Donating money is good, but donating time is a much more valuable currency. It's one that we can't get back.
It's the responsibility of everyone tbh. And indeed, donating time is much more valuable I totally agree. It's all in the things you do, create awareness.
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I absolutely agree, @Only Lilly and I were chatting about this with regards to Grenfell :/
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It seems to me that the way things are currently in society and the world as a whole, humanity will continue as if nothing is wrong right up until the critical point where it finally registers with humanity that we've ruined everything for ourselves. :'(
I sometimes wonder if we even deserve to be on this planet..
but hey the sun hasn't fallen out the sky yet and all that
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It seems to me that the way things are currently in society and the world as a whole, humanity will continue as if nothing is wrong right up until the critical point where it finally registers with humanity that we've ruined everything for ourselves. :'(
I sometimes wonder if we even deserve to be on this planet..
but hey the sun hasn't fallen out the sky yet and all that
We do derserve it I think, otherwise we wouldn’t be here.
But we have to change the way we threat this planet, we’ve got to fill up that circle for it to become whole again. We need te give back. It took this planet a insane amount of time to become full of life. We have to help her get back of het feet again.
And indeed, yet.
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Glad to see so many people with similar concerns regarding this in our clan. \:D/
I've brought up this mindset in public before here in Canada and have been swiftly mocked and told I'm heartless as-well as speaking from ignorance. (I'd rather think it's the opposite really; and like they aren't any more removed from it themselves? Baffling!)
Your post title is spot on. I'd argue use of a word a little harsher than 'strange', though. :P
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I think what a lot of people don't realize also is just how much money goes into every charity and organization in the world per year - that ISN'T Notre Dame. We're talking almost $500 billion donated in the US alone, and everyone is getting bent out of shape over $1-2 billion to a cathedral. Typically people complain that not enough money is donated to anything. Now it is and that's a problem?
Am I the only one who finds that odd?
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I think what a lot of people don't realize also is just how much money goes into every charity and organization in the world per year - that ISN'T Notre Dame. We're talking almost $500 billion donated in the US alone, and everyone is getting bent out of shape over $1-2 billion to a cathedral. Typically people complain that not enough money is donated to anything. Now it is and that's a problem?
Am I the only one who finds that odd?
I think it's the concept of mega rich people/companies/orgs that will donate to rebuild something physical so swiftly (the fact that it is tied to religion also plays a role), but not to a real issue happening somewhere else that is 'intangible' to them. (Also more world and life threatening)
You're comparing charities comprised of millions and millions of unique donations to that of a select group, where an *INSANE* amount of money had been donated over an extremely short period of time. Not even close/comparable (IMO). Two vastly different things.
To say this doesn't display the sentiments being echoed throughout this thread -- now that would be ignorant.
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But why is that a conversation at all? Why does everything have to be this or that? You can donate all the money you want towards helping fight climate change but that money isn't going to reverse anything. The damage has already been done. You can donate to help fight it from becoming worse than it already is, but that's it.
I said this to someone a bit earlier and am now kind of repeating myself. I'm not saying that amount of money couldn't be used on something a little more taxing at this moment. Because it definitely could have. I'm saying that why are the acts of charity that someone else chooses to do, so much of a concern to everyone? It's not even our money? Why is everyone so passionate about other people's money? If person buys bonds and TH keys because it supports Jagex, I'm not going to start complaining about it.
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Additionally, I wouldn't be shocked if it was done because those billionaires are going to receive a nice tax break as a result.
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But why is that a conversation at all? Why does everything have to be this or that? You can donate all the money you want towards helping fight climate change but that money isn't going to reverse anything. The damage has already been done. You can donate to help fight it from becoming worse than it already is, but that's it.
I said this to someone a bit earlier and am now kind of repeating myself. I'm not saying that amount of money couldn't be used on something a little more taxing at this moment. Because it definitely could have. I'm saying that why are the acts of charity that someone else chooses to do, so much of a concern to everyone? It's not even our money? Why is everyone so passionate about other people's money? If person buys bonds and TH keys because it supports Jagex, I'm not going to start complaining about it.
You're being a little too literal here. No one is telling anyone what to do with their money -- and you're exactly right, we don't have any right to tell other people what to do with their money; but we can sure as hell have an opinion.
Your first few sentences are pretty off putting/baffling:
But why is that a conversation at all? Why does everything have to be this or that? You can donate all the money you want towards helping fight climate change but that money isn't going to reverse anything. The damage has already been done. You can donate to help fight it from becoming worse than it already is, but that's it.
Geez. Some people like to play the realist role a little too strong. Why is it a conversation? That's a yikes from me. A mass influx of influential donations as seen here would immensely change some situations and landscapes around the world almost single-handedly. Do you travel/experience lesser fortunate areas around our globe? I find your comment to be quite crass and generalized.
Bringing Runescape keys up as a rebuttal was also... questionable. (a sensationalist comment in all reality)
Compassion > ego.
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I'm not surprised you find it crass. People who can't agree on something always think the other person is.
And that being said; I think you're arguing the wrong argument with me. We're technically on the same side here. Saying that there are other things that are a bit more vital in the world which could use such large donations. BUT I'm adding that it's not our place to decide what and when it's right or wrong in addition to that.
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Double post >.> O:) #-o
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I get it -- you're saying no conversation is needed as it's all a moot point. #-o
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Yeah it kind of is a moot point. We're two people debating something we actually have an agreement on. However one of us (myself) also thinks it's not the place for us to determine whether the actions of those doing what they think is right - is right or not.
You and I have nothing to debate.
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Yeah it kind of is a moot point. We're two people debating something we actually have an agreement on. However one of us (myself) also thinks it's not the place for us to determine whether the actions of those doing what they think is right - is right or not.
You and I have nothing to debate.
This topic is to create discussion in regards to exactly what I've been talking about (and what the OP intended, I'm sure). (The fact that people have strange priorities with money)
You're being too literal here. You're literally telling me that my opinions are invalid because we shouldn't tell people how to spend money lol.
You've just dismantled compassion for ego and arguing that we shouldn't feel this way. Again, what??
This isn't programming logic, Joe. This isn't 1's and 0's.
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Other than one not necessarily important view of mine, what are we not in agreement on? We agreed other things are more important. We agreed that ultimately it isn't our place to dictate other's spending choices but it's OK to still have an opinion about it.
Why is this still continuing? You lost me at programming logic too btw.
EDIT: That's not to say the programming statement doesn't make sense. I'm just not personally grasping what you mean by it is all. :P
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Other than one not necessarily important view of mine, what are we not in agreement on? We agreed other things are more important. We agreed that ultimately it isn't our place to dictate other's spending choices but it's OK to still have an opinion about it.
Why is this still continuing? You lost me at programming logic too btw.
This will be my last post, I don't wish to derail this any further and I regret it getting this far.
We do not agree. I said that we don't have the right to tell people what to do with their money; but I personally believe people of that stature SHOULD be using their money in ways to change the social landscapes of this world. (Look at people like Elon, a mainstream example but a plethora exist)
I DO hold people/organizations/groups of that nature to higher standards, as should all. This "they don't have to do anything, it's their money" concept is the meat here.
We can agree to disagree.
Please don't pick at sentences and assume we have the same ideals.
The programming/binary kick was an analogy that this isn't black and white. There are more layers at play than just to say "pfft, well you can't tell them what to spend their money on".
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I agree. I've gotten too into this as well.
But I also disagree, I do think we have the same ideals. But we were arguing what I felt like was two different things. We both want what's best and care about the world we live in. And I feel bad that I couldn't make that more clear earlier in the discussion.
But it is what it is.
EDIT:
The programming/binary kick was an analogy that this isn't black and white. There are more layers at play than just to say "pfft, well you can't tell them what to spend their money on".
Ahh. Gotcha.
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I find these images very accurate.
(https://i.ibb.co/X4fbrdc/3208-FCA9-1-DB5-49-BB-A0-CA-FF00-D1-CBC34-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/260y1LG)
(https://i.ibb.co/jh2qQvB/63-E791-DF-E898-4124-BF77-7-D24-FE24-B4-BE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0qS16j8)
(https://i.ibb.co/rpdLnKw/463453-E2-B8-AA-400-F-88-DD-196642-DA16-F4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/94ZfRmr)
(https://i.ibb.co/pPvqR1Q/33-B61-FAA-B62-E-42-B7-9484-23-EF453-C3-A1-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fSYJnX9)
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I saw that. It speaks volumes but unfortunately not enough people care. Many people (including a few in my family) live with this mentality of "well I won't be around when it becomes a problem, so I really don't care." Which is a horrible attitude to have and is likely how we got to where we are now. Apparently they have no issue letting their grandchildren suffer through the consequences of their laziness and lack to do what is right. Steve Irwin said it best with, "We don't own planet Earth, we belong to it. And we must share it with our wildlife."
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Relevance 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFNcN0Zc7k
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Their money, nothing we can do about it.