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Clan Forum => Debates => Debates archive => Topic started by: Powerless on July 23, 2016, 07:02:30

Title: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 23, 2016, 07:02:30
With the nominees set and the conventions now underway, I think it's time for this thread to be introduced. This thread will be dedicated to the discussion of the presidential election going on in the United States. This includes but is not limited to sharing ideas, discussion, debates, questions, etc. and is not limited to discussion of only the candidates but politics as a whole.

Below are the candidates including the typical views of "major" political topics in line with their party as well as views expressed specifically by the candidate.



(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/republikanischer-elefant-9639972.jpg)     REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT



 
Donald J. Trump     (http://img.4plebs.org/boards/s4s/image/1448/83/1448831041147.jpg)     Vice Presidential Running Mate - Mike Pence     (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Mike_Pence%2C_official_portrait%2C_112th_Congress.jpg/280px-Mike_Pence%2C_official_portrait%2C_112th_Congress.jpg)

Donald is a wealthy business man, real estate developer, television personality, and CEO and President of Trump Organization. He is typically seen as the mouthy, politically incorrect, political outsider candidate.

-Pro-Life.
-Believes marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. (Trump has vowed to protect LGBTQ rights while the majority of the party, including his VP pick, is against them)
-Believes climate change is a hoax.
-Wants to "build a wall" along the U.S.-Mexico border and "will make Mexico pay for it."
-Wants to implement a temporary ban on immigration of Muslims.
-Wants to implement a Muslim registry.
-Believes in expansion of military.
-Believes in limited forms of gun control.
-Believes in torture & capital punishment.
-Leave minimum wage the same.


(http://www.colorful-garden.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/democrats1.png&maxx=353&maxy=0)     DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT



Hillary R. Clinton     (http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1454/38/1454383994031.jpg)     Vice Presidential Running Mate - Tim Kaine     (https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/600/1*fMqycVo8XkVNa94oRVgDzg.jpeg)

Hillary is a former lawyer, First Lady, U.S. Senator, U.S. Secretary of State to the Obama Administration, and first woman presidential candidate of a main party. She is commonly seen as the "typical", mainstream, political candidate with years of political experience and Washington relations.

-Pro-Choice.
-Believes in marriage equality and strong supporter of LGBTQ rights.
-Believes climate change is real and a threat and that the U.S. must take action against it.
-Believes in defense spending budget cuts.
-Believes in stronger forms of gun control and closing loopholes.
-Is against capital punishment.
-Believes in a higher minimum wage ($15).
-Against the war on drugs.
-Believes in immigration reform for "pathway to full and equal citizenship."

These are just some of the positions that these parties/candidates hold. While Trump and Clinton are the two main candidates, there is a 3rd party candidate gaining popularity running as well with him being the only 3rd party candidate appearing on the ballot in all 50 states.

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/homefrontfanfiction/images/4/46/985px-Libertarian_Party.svg.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/178?cb=20141223022238)     LIBERTARIAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT

Gary E. Johnson     (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Garyjohnsonphoto_-_modified.jpg/400px-Garyjohnsonphoto_-_modified.jpg)     Vice Presidential Running Mate - Bill Weld     (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/737809418402684928/7kxIMdMh.jpg)


Gary is a construction business owner as well as the former Governor of New Mexico. He was the 2012 Libertarian candidate for president and, although getting 0% of the votes in 2012, has gained a lot of traction with the Republican and Democratic candidates being the most unfavorable candidates in modern political history. If reaching 15% in national polls, Gary Johnson will be able to take part in the debates among the candidates and many believe that after achieving this line of exposure, the possibility of a 3rd party candidate gaining traction and support has great probability.

-The gist of the Libertarian party's beliefs are that they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
-Pro-Choice.
-Advocate for LGBTQ rights.
-Limited forms of gun control.
-Against the war on drugs.
-For the legalization of marijuana.
-Against the death penalty.



Who do you support, whether American or not? Who do you disagree with? Would any receive your vote? Does a 3rd party candidate have a legitimate chance in this election cycle? This thread is to highlight your points of view, opinions, passions, and likes/dislikes. With the Republican National Convention just coming to a close, did anyone watch it? Favorite or least favorite parts? Please share.

NOTE: When debating, please attack ideas, not people. Keep this thread as civil as possible. Passion and strong opinions are not frowned upon, please just keep this thread a thread of discussion of policies, ideologies, and ideas and not ad hominem fallacies.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Mini Nub on July 23, 2016, 09:24:08
Hillary Clinton:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BizU-u7RPcY#)
The video is actually worth watching to see how much of a lying knob head this old hag is.

Donald Trump

Whoever becomes the next American President, y'all are probably screwed. Are these two parties seriously your only option?

Good luck America <3
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on July 23, 2016, 11:24:37
I dont think America is in trouble I think the whole world is :(

Who ever gets in unless they change drastically what will happen?

The world is crazy right now it worries me for our whole future.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on July 23, 2016, 11:48:07
http://www.celebritytypes.com/chart.php?n1=44.4&n2=0&n3=52.8&n4=0 (http://www.celebritytypes.com/chart.php?n1=44.4&n2=0&n3=52.8&n4=0)

Your political coordinates are:

33.3% Left, 36.1% Liberal
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Cherrycrush on July 23, 2016, 11:49:32
(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/mg_president_rock_conmp02.png?w=748&h=427&crop=1)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Egypt on July 23, 2016, 12:22:05
Well I'm definitely against Clinton & Trump, also not the biggest fan of Johnson

I'm sure America has better people in it to run for this position.

(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/mg_president_rock_conmp02.png?w=748&h=427&crop=1)

^Yeah that sounds about right.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Redtunnel on July 23, 2016, 18:01:27
http://www.celebritytypes.com/chart.php?n1=44.4&n2=0&n3=52.8&n4=0 (http://www.celebritytypes.com/chart.php?n1=44.4&n2=0&n3=52.8&n4=0)

Your political coordinates are:

33.3% Left, 36.1% Liberal
I did the test too and got 19.4% Right, 22.2% Liberal

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 23, 2016, 23:28:35
Red and Lilly, if you or anyone else is interested in which candidate you align most with in America I have a more extensive quiz you can take. :) It's in detail on specific issues, some solely in America, and then aligns those viewpoints with the candidates.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Redtunnel on July 23, 2016, 23:40:11
Red and Lilly, if you or anyone else is interested in which candidate you align most with in America I have a more extensive quiz you can take. :) It's in detail on specific issues, some solely in America, and then aligns those viewpoints with the candidates.
Link? :D
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 24, 2016, 01:19:25
Red and Lilly, if you or anyone else is interested in which candidate you align most with in America I have a more extensive quiz you can take. :) It's in detail on specific issues, some solely in America, and then aligns those viewpoints with the candidates.
Link? :D

I recommend selecting "answer more ___ questions" as much as possible to get more answer and further accuracy. :)
Link: http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2016-presidential-quiz (http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2016-presidential-quiz)

Also, if you just google isidewith, there's a UK version as well.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on July 24, 2016, 01:37:26
Honestly, I am going to vote for Hillary at this point and it is not because I feel like she is the worst of two evils.  I think she has been smeared a lot (I was actually around for a lot of her political career and there is a reason the mud didn't stick - a lot of it wasn't actually true) - she is actually rated pretty honest - http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/fact-checkers-confirm-hillary-clinton-is-more-honest-than-any-of-her-2016-opponents/24196/ (http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/fact-checkers-confirm-hillary-clinton-is-more-honest-than-any-of-her-2016-opponents/24196/) by fact checkers.  I am actually an independent voter.  I voted for the Republican mayor for San Diego and I was happy with that vote too.  I honestly would have serious concerns about Donald Trump's ability and experience to be President.  I also am shocked by the Republican Platform (which is not the same as the nominee's views above).  I like fivethirtyeight.com because it is math-based and they try to be factual if you are interested in more U.S. election information.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Redtunnel on July 24, 2016, 02:12:42
Red and Lilly, if you or anyone else is interested in which candidate you align most with in America I have a more extensive quiz you can take. :) It's in detail on specific issues, some solely in America, and then aligns those viewpoints with the candidates.
Link? :D

I recommend selecting "answer more ___ questions" as much as possible to get more answer and further accuracy. :)
Link: http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2016-presidential-quiz (http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2016-presidential-quiz)

Also, if you just google isidewith, there's a UK version as well.
I wish they had an "I don't know/don't have an opinion" alternative on some questions :P At any rate, I answered all of them (the extras too). Apparently Johnson is my best match
(http://puu.sh/qcdEp/efdcbcd89f.jpg)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 24, 2016, 02:38:25
Red and Lilly, if you or anyone else is interested in which candidate you align most with in America I have a more extensive quiz you can take. :) It's in detail on specific issues, some solely in America, and then aligns those viewpoints with the candidates.
Link? :D

I recommend selecting "answer more ___ questions" as much as possible to get more answer and further accuracy. :)
Link: http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2016-presidential-quiz (http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2016-presidential-quiz)

Also, if you just google isidewith, there's a UK version as well.
I wish they had an "I don't know/don't have an opinion" alternative on some questions :P At any rate, I answered all of them (the extras too). Apparently Johnson is my best match
(http://puu.sh/qcdEp/efdcbcd89f.jpg)

You dummy, you could have passed up on questions you don't know anything about lol. You could have just skipped them. :P And interesting that you lean most libertarian.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Redtunnel on July 24, 2016, 02:43:16
Ah, didn't know you could skip them. I tried to do some quick research on them what I would lean towards :P I was surprised to get a 79% match. In Swedish tests, my best are usually just below 70%, sometimes as low as 60%. I had to add my own alternative answers to a couple of questions. No idea how that affected the result
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on July 24, 2016, 16:30:11
(http://i63.tinypic.com/nn8s9l.png)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Cherrycrush on July 24, 2016, 21:44:55
I got 84% Hillary and 82% Sanders, would probably vote Sanders
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 24, 2016, 23:14:17
RECENT ELECTION NEWS:

Emails have surfaced showing that the Democratic National Convention (DNC) favored Clinton throughout the primary showing major bias against Sanders. Sanders had been commonly saying that the system was rigged against him and called for the head of the DNC to resign due to it. With these new emails months after, the head of the DNC is refusing to speak at the convention next week and is resigning afterward.

With how well Sanders did during the primary, especially toward the end when gaining traction, you can only wonder how much further he would have went with more media coverage, more transparency to the public, and made more available to hear from.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on July 25, 2016, 00:17:45
I think Sanders would be fine as President same as Hillary although honestly I think she has more knowledge about how to get things done politically.  My main concern with Sanders is Gun Control.  I have no problem with his changing position - I think the country has evolved and it is good to see people grow (as long as they don't keep changing back and forth rapidly).  It's his current comments that Gun Control is mainly a state issue that have me concerned.  The United States needs to enact common sense gun legislation that the overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens want.  But there are things I disagree with Hillary on too.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on July 25, 2016, 00:22:25
Also - I am not sure the DNC has as much influence as people might think.  Honestly, the RNC did not want Donald Trump as nominee - they fought it covertly then overtly.  I think that in the age of internet and a billion tv channels - it is harder to influence races.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Palace on July 25, 2016, 01:09:49
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

(http://i.imgur.com/AlYdEQa.png)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 25, 2016, 02:21:24
Also - I am not sure the DNC has as much influence as people might think.  Honestly, the RNC did not want Donald Trump as nominee - they fought it covertly then overtly.  I think that in the age of internet and a billion tv channels - it is harder to influence races.

I agree that they may not have as much power as people think, but they still have power. And yes, the RNC definitely didn't want Trump, but the difference between Trump and Sanders is that Trump got the unlimited supply of free "advertising' and publicity through news networks because of the controversial things he was saying. Because Sanders wasn't saying these outrageous things, he didn't get he coverage.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on July 25, 2016, 05:24:36
There are huge differences between Sanders and Trump.  The media gave Trump unprecedented coverage that none of the RNC or DNC candidates got.  That being said Trump didn't get a lot of the funding (whether he said he wanted it or not - he wasn't being courted by the Republican donors and he got turned down by a bunch) the other candidates got and ran a bare bones campaign relatively speaking because of the free media coverage.  I stand by that I am not sure the DNC damaged Sander's prospects significantly.  Sanders made huge progress and had a big impact on the campaign.  I think a lot of Democrats were wary of Sanders though because they were not sure of how he would match up against the perceived Republican candidate (which probably was not initially thought of by most as Donald Trump) and because they didn't want to have a Ross Perot effect.  Whether either of those were true or not - I think that hurt Sanders more than DNC machinations.  Frankly I would have liked to see Biden in the race.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on July 25, 2016, 07:59:22
When do the elections start?
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 25, 2016, 10:02:34
see people may hate more saying this but if i have to choose between hilary or trump......well my vote going to trump..(really dont like politics so kinda gonna regret posting in here but here my opinion)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 25, 2016, 17:50:23
The election is in November, Lilly.

Why Trump, Eddie?
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on July 25, 2016, 19:02:23
Election day is 11/8/2016.  Rules vary from state-to-state but in most states you can send in ballots earlier.  Some states have voting over multiple days to make it easier for people who work or can't get rides other times to get to polling places. 
Looking at the news - I don't think the DNC actually impacted the Sanders' campaign (although they might not have been helpful) - I think they discussed (and shouldn't have - they should have supported all candidates equally) how to damage Sanders' campaign.  http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/damaging-emails-dnc-wikileaks-dump/story?id=40852448 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/damaging-emails-dnc-wikileaks-dump/story?id=40852448)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on July 25, 2016, 19:09:36
One problem with the Supreme Court saying that news does not have to be truthful is it is very hard to figure out in the U.S. what is real and what isn't.  I think that is a problem for both parties.  Basically, anyone can start a rumor or a meme and repeat it so often that people take it for fact.  Or if they don't take it as fact, they basically think well there has to be something there because people keep talking about it.  One thing I would really like to see is some (maybe administered by a third party) standard for truthfulness.  For example, if something has been discredited - you shouldn't be able to present it as fact.  If you accidentally post something that is false and find out later - you should have to post prominently that there was an error.  When I took journalism in college (a long time ago) that was what they taught us was done.  They really don't do that any more. 
And Republican, Liberal, Democrat, and Conservative groups have their own sources which are internally consistent.  They don't fall apart until you do more research.  One thing I try to do is read multiple sources to see if I can get an idea of what is really going on.  And a lot of times that is very difficult to do.
I think it is harder on younger people too because I grew up with watching these people over decades so I have seen their evolution.  A lot of younger votes (my two oldest kids included) are having to process a lot of information, historical events, and opinions without having lived through or really understanding what happened.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 25, 2016, 21:40:12
voting for hilary is like taking a lethal injection and voting for trump is a firing squad.  both imo are not who id personally want but honestly it the options so i chose trump yes Everyone hates him but the fact of the emails hilary had hidden kinda makes me not trust her.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Palace on July 25, 2016, 21:48:49
The problem I have with Trump is that I picked the most offensive and idiotic answers that I could on the poll, and I agreed with Trump on 95% of them lol

The problem I have with Clinton is that she's a snake

Not voting this time
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Andrew on July 26, 2016, 02:49:45
The problem I have with Trump is that I picked the most offensive and idiotic answers that I could on the poll, and I agreed with Trump on 95% of them lol

The problem I have with Clinton is that she's a snake

Not voting this time

I'm not american, but I believe their are other candidates, and should probably be an abstain vote as well.  Voting for something is better than voting for nothing at all
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Jasperine on July 26, 2016, 06:17:50
I don't like either of the candidates. I don't want to vote, because I don't like either of them, and I don't want to feel responsible for the sh*t that will inevitably happen as a result of this upcoming inauguration.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Mini Nub on July 26, 2016, 18:35:53
I'm not 100% sure how voting works in the United Kingdom, but if I'm not mistaken, you have several options to choose who to vote for, such as UKIP, Green Party, Libs, etc etc.

Is this not the same in America?
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Jasperine on July 26, 2016, 18:42:48
I'm not 100% sure how voting works in the United Kingdom, but if I'm not mistaken, you have several options to choose who to vote for, such as UKIP, Green Party, Libs, etc etc.

Is this not the same in America?

We do have multiple parties, but the majority of the votes go to the main two parties, Republican and Democrat, so you're essentially throwing away your vote by voting for the smaller parties. (Green, Independent, Libertarian, etc.)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 26, 2016, 18:45:38
The United States typically has 2 main parties running - Republicans and Democrats.

There are always others running as "third party" candidates (that's the phrase used to describe them since they aren't one of the two main parties) but they typically receive very little if any votes.

For example, here are the results of the 2012 Presidential Election when Barack Obama was re-elected:

Democrat) Barack Obama - 65,918,507 votes - 51.01%
Republican) Mitt Romney - 60,934,407 votes - 47.15%
Libertarian) Gary Johnson - 1,275,923 votes - 0.99%
Green Party) Jill Stein - 469,015 votes - 0.36%
Other (+) - 639,790 - 0.5%

So yes, there are more than 2 candidates, but they're rarely voted for.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Mini Nub on July 26, 2016, 18:55:05
If you're against voting for Trump and Hillary, why not vote for one of these smaller parties?

Surely they can't be as bad as Trillary. (Trump and Hillary - Trillary) :D
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 26, 2016, 19:12:36
If you're against voting for Trump and Hillary, why not vote for one of these smaller parties?

Surely they can't be as bad as Trillary. (Trump and Hillary - Trillary) :D

The thing is, the winner isn't determined by the popular vote, it's determined by the electoral college where the electorates are chosen based on the popular vote. A candidate must have at least 270 electorates out of 538 in order to win the presidency. If a third party candidate is introduced and voted for, claiming some of the electorates, it is possible that no candidate would reach the 270 requirement. If this happens, the House of Representatives (Republican controlled right now) would choose the President of the candidates running while the Senate (Democrat controlled right now) would choose the Vice President.

So, in a way, if a person is against Trump for example, voting for Johnson may not be as great of an idea as it seems since it would be possible for Johnson to get enough votes to cause no candidate to reach 270, leaving the Republican controlled House to choose Trump.

Also, interestingly, we'd have a split "ticket" in the Pres/VP spot with a Republican President and Democrat Vice President.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on July 26, 2016, 20:45:09
Honestly, I wish I had a better handle on the facts in all these cases.  Recently it came out that Clinton (or her staff) had tried many times to get a secure blackberry - and the person who maintained and monitored her server wound up working the State Department IT department
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-clintons-email-scandal-took-root/2016/03/27/ee301168-e162-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-clintons-email-scandal-took-root/2016/03/27/ee301168-e162-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html)
Back then, Blackberries were used for working people like smart phones now.  I remember when I started using email - as an engineer - very few people were using emails privately (heck I remember using the internet before real graphics and windows) - then all of a sudden it took off.  I don't think the regulations and security kept up with the changing tech. 
  From PBS "In 2007, when Congress asked the Bush administration for emails surrounding the firing of eights U.S. attorneys, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales revealed that many of the emails requested could not be produced because they were sent on a non-government email server.  The officials had used the private domain gwb43.com, a server run by the Republican National Committee. Two years later, it was revealed that potentially 22 million emails were deleted, which was considered by some to be a violation of the Presidential Records Act."
  Honestly, she is in her 70s, her skill set is not technical.  I have actually volunteered for teachers in the schools (who were awesome teachers) who couldn't even figure out how to receive or send emails without help.  There is no smoking gun (and by that I mean I haven't seen anyone produce evidence - even the FBI and all the other committees called it careless not intentional) about her actively trying to hide things by using the private server.  She supposedly was introduced to the blackberry during the 2008 election and loved it and wanted to figure out how to use it in her job.  As an engineer, I can understand wanting to use good tech.
  I want to know more about the missing emails but my understanding was there was a firm that backed up the servers for the Clintons and last October delivered their backups to the FBI - I have no idea why we haven't heard anything more about that.  We should have at least heard whether they were able to recover the missing emails or not. 
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 27, 2016, 07:29:52
Today, Hillary Rodham Clinton officially accepted the Democratic Presidential Nomination making her the first woman to ever be the nominee to a major political party in United States history.

(http://popcrush.com/files/2016/07/hillary-clinton-dnc-celebs-react.jpg)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on July 27, 2016, 09:52:23
This all seems very omplicated, and now we have to wait until November for the result?

So you can only vote for 1 of 2 people?
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 27, 2016, 14:01:44
yeah you can only vote for one person....i mena there options to write people in.....but honestly meh....idk im not really a huge political person haha. i just watch the stuff when they had their debates here in ohio and then the news and such for other stuff.....
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 27, 2016, 16:08:35
This all seems very omplicated, and now we have to wait until November for the result?

So you can only vote for 1 of 2 people?

You can technically vote for anyone by writing in an individual's name, but really you have choices ranging from all political parties that decide to run. The thing is, there's 2 main parties that dominate elections because the other parties get very little coverage. For example, a party's candidate must be polling at 15% or more in x amount of national polls in order to be accepted into the nation-watched presidential debates where the candidates debate the issues. Someone like Gary Johnson, a libertarian, is polling around 9-10% right now, so he would not be included. This lack of coverage and transparency for these candidates leave them in the dark and the two major candidates remain in the spotlight. So technically, there are multiple choices, but because the other non-mainstream candidates are known to be floozies most of the time, people don't bother voting for them, even if they most agree with them. They default to one of the two major candidates that reflects most closely to their beliefs since they're the only ones who have a chance of winning.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 27, 2016, 19:41:41
Lilly for President of America 2016!!
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on July 29, 2016, 10:21:38
Lilly for President of America 2016!!

Lets do it!!!
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 29, 2016, 12:03:41
Lilly for President of America 2016!!

Lets do it!!!


LOL !!!! ill legit write in "Only Lilly"
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 30, 2016, 05:03:25
Did anyone watch any of the speakers at either of the conventions? If so, thoughts?

Would anyone be interested in me posting each of the nominee's speeches so you can hear them?
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on July 30, 2016, 10:20:32
I would yes please
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 30, 2016, 14:15:19
yes id like to see the speeches....dont think i caught them
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on July 30, 2016, 19:54:49
Hillary Clinton speech (ignore the music change at the beginning, the channel swapped the song to avoid copyright):
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edoF9yYHLP8#)

Donald Trump:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34Svt3kfq1c#)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 30, 2016, 20:59:14
time to do some watching!
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on July 31, 2016, 06:58:32
BTW - you don't have to vote for President but you should vote anyway - 88% of the house and senate seats are up for reelection - not even mentioning the local seats and laws.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Palace on July 31, 2016, 14:32:56
What many believe to be the most moving speech of the conventions, by Khizr Khan, the father of a fallen American soldier
http://youtu.be/uG0K_9RDeFE (http://youtu.be/uG0K_9RDeFE)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 31, 2016, 15:13:26
i still say voting for trump...personally ......but meh it my own opinion i guess... i just cant get over hilary lying but like i said it literally like picking between a firing squad or lethal injection so.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Palace on July 31, 2016, 15:17:42
I agree. Hillary is power hungry, Trump is racist and more interested in fame than in solving his country's problems. Although I won't be voting, I'd prefer Hillary to win because she'll do less harm in 4 years than Trump, and then we can hopefully get better candidates.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Eddie on July 31, 2016, 15:33:01
it is sad that presidential elections are coming down to picking between to painful choices :C
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Redtunnel on July 31, 2016, 18:21:46
Pretty interesting test: http://chartsme.com/ (http://chartsme.com/)

My results on that tests seemed to correspond well to what I got on the more serious and on point test
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on August 01, 2016, 04:22:16
Pretty interesting test: http://chartsme.com/ (http://chartsme.com/)

My results on that tests seemed to correspond well to what I got on the more serious and on point test

Wow. Mine was fairly accurate as well.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on August 01, 2016, 11:02:33
Im perfectly mod 50% lol
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Cherrycrush on August 01, 2016, 13:54:08
Your brain is a Republican

Interesting test lol..  :-#
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on August 02, 2016, 04:26:37
UPDATE:

The most recent poll, now after the RNC and DNC conventions, shows Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump by 7 points.

Looks like she got quite a bump from her convention.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on August 03, 2016, 18:03:45
Sure she is better than Trump?

Thanks so much for keeping this thread updated, I am enjoying it very much
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on August 04, 2016, 06:12:47
Sure she is better than Trump?

Thanks so much for keeping this thread updated, I am enjoying it very much

I'm going to be voting for Clinton for sure. She aligns with my political views much more than Trump does and Trump's mannerisms, temperament, language, attitude, etc. all DO NOT align with that of a President in my opinion. I'm pretty passionate about this election as I have a strong dislike of the Republican candidate this year... But I always love hearing both sides to see if I can challenge their opinions and defend mine.

Only thing I can say about this thread is I was hoping for a little more debate about the candidates and certain topics. ;)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on August 12, 2016, 03:45:07
As more time passes, the numbers are polarizing even more with Clinton in a comfortable lead. Here is a picture from RealClearPolitics, a website that shows the last few polls and averages them together to show where each of the candidates stand.

(http://i.imgur.com/dPDXNlc.png)

Clinton has gotten a major boost after more scandals coming from Trump and his campaign including him "shooing" a baby and the mother out of a rally when he was crying, saying that if his daughter was being sexually harassed at work that she should just "get another job", that President Obama "founded ISIS", and most recently, that 2nd amendment (the right to bear arms) supporters should "do something" about Hillary Clinton.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Rubes on August 12, 2016, 09:07:34
Not seen this thread before and I've enjoyed reading it!!! I did that test and was firmly a democrat ;o
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on August 12, 2016, 10:14:02
Trump just gets worse and worse, or is it Hilarys publicity people  do a better job?

Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Redtunnel on August 12, 2016, 18:06:08
Swedish (and European media, I presume) never portray Trump in a positive light. Is this also true for American media?
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on August 12, 2016, 19:45:48
Swedish (and European media, I presume) never portray Trump in a positive light. Is this also true for American media?

Most of the media in America is liberal - so yes, the media most definitely usually portrays Trump in a negative sense. When it comes to TV news media, the only station that is conservatively biased is Fox News, which says very little negatively about him while bashing Hillary as much as possible. I think that the fact that the media is liberal does have something to do with the negativity, but in my own opinion, it really shouldn't matter. When you take into account things that he's said, how he's said them, things he's done, and positions he's taken, you shouldn't NEED to be liberal to criticize him. He's an abomination to our political system and utterly scares me with the fact that he could represent my country. Again though, that's just my opinion.

Hillary is known for being very calculative and seen as the candidate who says anything necessary to get elected. She's the typical politician. Nothing "new" about her campaign, which is why this election is such a huge deal - we have a non-traditional, never elected businessman vs. the traditional elected politician. While yes I do believe Hillary's campaign has her image under control much better, I don't think that's the issue with Trump. Trump just ignores what's being told to him by his campaign.

If you look up interview of American politicians who are Republicans, in his own party, and even ones that have supported him, it's a crapshoot to watch. It's easily seen that they're just supporting him for the party even though they know that he's a disaster. One major Republican and former presidential candidate Rick Santorum was visiting an extremely liberal TV show and watching him stutter and try to defend Trump was horrific. He at one point even said that because Trump behaved himself today, he should pat himself on the back. Even as a joke, having to say that about your party's candidate running for president is a disgrace.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on September 30, 2016, 21:01:14
This last Monday, the first presidential debate occurred with both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. It's the first time that they both debated on the topics chosen.
What are you thoughts on the debate if you watched it? Who do you think won?

Here is the debate if you're interested in watching it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=855Am6ovK7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=855Am6ovK7s)

Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on October 01, 2016, 05:58:38
I honestly don't think Donald and Hillary are in the same ballpark.  Hillary is flawed but she is still a very good candidate with years of experience in different areas of government.  She has accomplished a lot.  If you look at the Conservative and Republican newspapers - a lot of them are actually not endorsing Donald Trump or are actually endorsing Hillary.  If you look at the fact checkers, Hillary is rated much more honest than Donald.  Donald's business record is not clear - producing his taxes or even the first two pages would go a long way to showing his success/failure.  Donald also doesn't really have many plans that can be evaluated (as an engineer - I like to research things - and I did vote Republican for the San Diego Mayor).  Most of Hillary's life has been under a microscope.  Nothing has been actionable.  There are definitely things coming to light that are questionable with Donald's business practices.  I am from NJ originally and knew people who had not gotten paid what they were contracted for with Trump.  Atlantic City was a disaster.  His long history of doubling down on comments about appearances bugs me too. 
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on October 01, 2016, 06:00:20
By the way, I really like fivethirtyeight.com - they are a math site - they have quants on either side of the aisle - and they are pretty neutral about following the data.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Powerless on October 03, 2016, 18:46:54
By the way, I really like fivethirtyeight.com - they are a math site - they have quants on either side of the aisle - and they are pretty neutral about following the data.

You bring up a good point about the website. I'll go ahead and post a link to it because I think it's very useful.
FiveThirtyEight Presidential Election coverage: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Redtunnel on October 03, 2016, 19:44:50
Thanks, that's an interesting website :D
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Joe on October 05, 2016, 00:06:18
The debate last week went just like I said it would: It was more of a 'yo momma battle' than anything else.  A he said, she said argument.  It was embarrasing and I almost stopped watching because truth be told I'm not a huge fan of either candidate.  As bad as I think Hillary is, Trump is yet to show the "serious Trump" he keeps promising everyone he'll be if/when he's in office.  If there was a time to show that side of himself, the first Presidential Debate was an ideal place to do so. 

Needles to say I'm not entirely sure what to expect, but I know who I'm going to vote for.  I am preparing for the worst.  These next 4 years are going to be very ugly no matter who is elected. 
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Shef on October 05, 2016, 00:27:36
Depending on how this goes, Pebble has told me we may be moving back to the UK lol
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on October 07, 2016, 15:00:51
I know the majority of the UK are worried who gets in.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Cherrycrush on October 07, 2016, 19:15:45
I know the majority of the UK are worried who gets in.

Are they? I've not heard anybody mention it in public, let alone be worried about it.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on October 09, 2016, 06:22:17
I can remember quite a few electoral, political leader changes (here and abroad) that were hyped as the end of the world.  While some had worse outcomes than others - none were anywhere near as tragic as projected.  We do have a system of checks and balances.  If Hillary wins - we probably will have more gridlock.  If Trump wins - he won't be able to do a lot of the things he has mentioned but there will probably be a strong conservative shift (because if he wins - the Republicans will likely have the house (unlikely to change regardless of who is elected President), the senate (will probably go to the party of the President but might stay Republican if Hillary wins), and the ability to shift the Supreme court back to a conservative court).  Neither result will end the world.  Generally speaking, I think the worst part will be economic.  The tax policy and proposed legislative changes that Trump could make have been projected by conservative foundations to ramp up the deficit by an order of magnitude more than Hillary's without helping the poor or middle class.  I prefer Hillary's detailed vision of investing in education and infrastructure because I think it is more realistic.  But I don't think a Trump presidency is going to ruin the U.S. or the world.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on October 09, 2016, 06:47:20
I think the liberal media is a bit of an overstatement.  There is quite a large conservative/republican media here too - unfortunately the media is pretty polarized, reflecting America's polarization (a lot of people only want to read the stories that align with their beliefs).  I try to read both sides and as much neutral media as possible.  What is amazing to me about this election is that so many conservative writers have disowned Trump (they have not necessarily owned Hillary - many are not voting for president (although I am sure they will be voting in down-ballot races), are looking at write-in candidates, or third parties).  You actually have people who were actively engaged in looking for legal issues with Whitewater, Benghazi... who were #NeverHillary - stepping up and supporting her.  There are four newspapers that have rarely endorsed a candidate or never endorsed a democrat who are endorsing her.  I think this speaks less to Hillary's team than the wide gulf between the two candidates. 
  This year with average republican and democratic candidates, the underlying fundamentals favor the republic candidate - this is talked about in several sites including fivethirtyeight.  Hillary has had a pretty low favorability rating.  An average republican candidate should be way ahead.  Donald Trump is not your average candidate.
  To be fair to him (although it seems like it was his choice), Donald Trump's campaign is also hampered by their minimal ground game and unusual organization.  I do think that Kellyanne Conway has improved his public relations and spin but it is a tough job.  Honestly, I think anyone who is shocked by the statements by Donald Trump that were released on Friday has not paid any attention to the information that has always been out there about Trump.  I think it is more likely that Republican candidates are taking the opportunity to distance their campaigns (or some of them REALLY liked Pence in the debates). 
  For Hillary, the quotes from her speeches would have been a much stronger attack in any other campaign.  In this campaign - all her party needs to do is lay low relatively speaking.  Again, I think that is due more to her opponent than to her campaign's skills...
Swedish (and European media, I presume) never portray Trump in a positive light. Is this also true for American media?

Most of the media in America is liberal - so yes, the media most definitely usually portrays Trump in a negative sense. When it comes to TV news media, the only station that is conservatively biased is Fox News, which says very little negatively about him while bashing Hillary as much as possible. I think that the fact that the media is liberal does have something to do with the negativity, but in my own opinion, it really shouldn't matter. When you take into account things that he's said, how he's said them, things he's done, and positions he's taken, you shouldn't NEED to be liberal to criticize him. He's an abomination to our political system and utterly scares me with the fact that he could represent my country. Again though, that's just my opinion.

Hillary is known for being very calculative and seen as the candidate who says anything necessary to get elected. She's the typical politician. Nothing "new" about her campaign, which is why this election is such a huge deal - we have a non-traditional, never elected businessman vs. the traditional elected politician. While yes I do believe Hillary's campaign has her image under control much better, I don't think that's the issue with Trump. Trump just ignores what's being told to him by his campaign.

If you look up interview of American politicians who are Republicans, in his own party, and even ones that have supported him, it's a crapshoot to watch. It's easily seen that they're just supporting him for the party even though they know that he's a disaster. One major Republican and former presidential candidate Rick Santorum was visiting an extremely liberal TV show and watching him stutter and try to defend Trump was horrific. He at one point even said that because Trump behaved himself today, he should pat himself on the back. Even as a joke, having to say that about your party's candidate running for president is a disgrace.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on October 09, 2016, 06:49:30
By the way, I read a relatively positive story about Trump recently - http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/michael-che-colin-jost-snl-229037.  I am probably biased because I grew up in the NY/NJ area and saw a lot of the stories of people not being paid or businesses going under with the Atlantic City deals and such.  I don't think there is much to admire in people who make money by taking advantage of others.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on October 09, 2016, 21:41:46
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/2016-russia-clinton-trump-oppo-research-214334 = maybe I was wrong - maybe they are that good at spin...
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Only Lilly on October 11, 2016, 19:30:18
Whats the turn out for voting in America?
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on October 13, 2016, 22:46:12
"Voter turnout in the United States fluctuates in national elections. In recent elections, about 60% of the voting eligible population votes during presidential election years, and about 40% votes during midterm elections. Turnout is lower for odd year, primary and local elections." fairvote.org
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/11/1580971/-Holy-shit-North-Carolina-Republican-voting-is-down-by-HALF-compared-to-2012 - This election might be different than ones in the past (or not...)
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: Jasperine on October 23, 2016, 02:28:46
(https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14657382_1873200929576789_1214692207306850514_n.jpg?oh=1f1159656dce50d221119384b4fc0794&oe=58A0E73F)

Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: healer on October 23, 2016, 07:25:05
I wish i cared more about the elections because I know it affects my future as being an American...but for one with my little political knowledge and seeing both the runners, it REALLY makes me want it done and over with so we can see what actually happens.
Title: Re: United States 2016 Presidential Election Discussion and Debate
Post by: maraderkholm on October 26, 2016, 21:59:08
Our system of checks and balances is such that even if you don't love who is in office, what damage they can do is limited.  This also tends to reduce what good they can do - things happen at an evolutionary rather than a revolutionary pace.  Don't feel like you need to get a PhD in Poli Sci to get involved though.  There are a lot of nonpartisan sites that give quick briefings and, over time, you will learn a lot!