The way this has been written is clearly bias but what do you think about disability benefit not being income based?

I think the whole disability system needs looking at forr children.

I know far too many that claim and shouldnt

This is a very iffy situation. In cases of those who claim when they shouldn't is it worth making it so strict that cases where families truly need it can be affected? We have leaders and politicians for a reason, if something needed changing it would be changed. If something was easy to change, it would be changed. It's easy to say something needs to change when you're looking at it from afar and have no impact on it's goings-on.

This is a very iffy situation. In cases of those who claim when they shouldn't is it worth making it so strict that cases where families truly need it can be affected? We have leaders and politicians for a reason, if something needed changing it would be changed. If something was easy to change, it would be changed. It's easy to say something needs to change when you're looking at it from afar and have no impact on it's goings-on.

they are changing the system but they way they are doing it is just horrible. They have been pointing an accusatory finger at any and all who have claimed any kind of benefit for sometime when really, it's stones from glass houses.

i am glad in part that it is NOT based on incomes - because my parents collectively earn 50k approx (that is before everything is deducted, taxes national insurances, other insurances etc etc, and the amount that gets deducted from it then leaving a lot less, is not really a fair comparison. to say "oh u earn 50k so u wont get anything" thats unfair, as not all of it ends up in one's pocket, as im sure u will agree with that.

i am glad it is partly to do with the severity of the disability/type - HOWEVER, there are some serious issues with it being unbalanced

eg terminal cancer patient had her benefits completely stopped from disability. - i do not see how their criteria in any shape nor form is correct in changing that

i am however still pleased that added fibromyalgia to the list of illnesses that can be claimed for, and is now recognised.

it needs a lot more balance.
personally, way i "feel" it should go is:
1first assess level of disability, type etc and do a base rate for the subjective person
2and then factor in any other economical issues. but not necessarily however deduct ofc - because of the first part it is what entitled to.

but #1 needs to be done better by more reforms that are more empathetic to people's situations, as in some cases, being delcared "fit for work" is appalling (one case was on the news of not being able to move, speak etc and relying on their family for support)

Not sure if this is what you're trying to get at, but that's how shitty our benefit system is.

It's absolutely appalling how immigrants can get better care and financial help from our government than us British people do - without even trying to look for a job or actually get the money fairly. Leeching off of us who work our arses off, pay tax and still struggle to afford all the things we need.

P.S. I'm addressing Jamie's point the most in my post.

It's absolutely appalling how immigrants can get better care and financial help from our government than us British people do - without even trying to look for a job or actually get the money fairly. Leeching off of us who work our arses off, pay tax and still struggle to afford all the things we need.

P.S. I'm addressing Jamie's point the most in my post.

Id like to say thats not entirely true

There are more people that were born in this country that do nothing but scrounge

erm... i'm going to be honest, I think some of those comparisons are jack. I have respect for the armed forces but I can tell you from my experiences in job centres and from claiming disability with my mum, people from other countries aren't given preferential treatment in the UK.

There are many reasons for situations to occur, I would like more information about each individual case because it's not like you come to the UK and take your payout.

Abbie, I think your comments are unfounded, don't believe everything the tabloids tell you.

It's absolutely appalling how immigrants can get better care and financial help from our government than us British people do - without even trying to look for a job or actually get the money fairly. Leeching off of us who work our arses off, pay tax and still struggle to afford all the things we need.

P.S. I'm addressing Jamie's point the most in my post.

Haha stereotypical Daily Mail. The situation is far from that, immigrants contribute a great deal more than a lot of Britons, often working longer hours for less pay, with most still declaring their income and paying tax.

Quote from: Winter on February 14, 2013, 17:07:41

It's absolutely appalling how immigrants can get better care and financial help from our government than us British people do - without even trying to look for a job or actually get the money fairly. Leeching off of us who work our arses off, pay tax and still struggle to afford all the things we need.

P.S. I'm addressing Jamie's point the most in my post.

Id like to say thats not entirely true

There are more people that were born in this country that do nothing but scrounge

You are completely right in that regard and also those people are no better to me - I put them all in the same boat. I wouldn't want to be going to work, working hard all day every day in order to pay my bills, to survive and maybe even to live a comfortable life only to find out the tax I'm paying is going towards somebody who's leeching off the governments money and not even taking the initiative to get off their arses and start looking for a job.

I also know there are many immigrants who come here and work hard in order to create a better life for them and their family here which I respect and do not mind. I'm fully aware that those immigrants are a minority compared to the other immigrants who come here yet they still piss me off. I think a lot of immigrants actually contribute more to this country than some of our own people do which I appreciate. Their hard work and willingness to contribute is something I wish more British people had.

My post was not meant to come across as ignorant or one sided but I didn't really want to get into the whole debate of it - I rather just wanted to add my opinion to Jamie's post.

Abbie, I think your comments are unfounded, don't believe everything the tabloids tell you.

My comments are not unfounded. I'm not pulling comments out of my arse here you know. The newspapers usually contain bias bullshit anyway on these topics from what I've seen.

I'll refrain from posting now and watch the debate hopefully blossom with further input.

The UK would really struggle without immigrants as they do the jobs that most British people do not want to do. Also a very large amount of immigrants aren't from Poland, although it's a 'popular' area, so is a large portion of Eastern-Europe.

/Ireland has one of the larger immigration rates to the UK because the economy fluctuates a lot./

Polish migrants tend to work in Factories and similar lines of work. - I actually think a large amount work in the Health Care service as nurses visiting peoples homes? (A grandparent seems to have a lot of Polish nurses, lol.)

Therefore whilst immigrants do take a decent portion of jobs away from actual British citizens that is often the reason they are here. And even if not, it may be a job people may not be willing to do.

There are different reasons as to why people immigrate to Britain, largely because of  job opportunities, the better health care and other benefits the government offers, but also because of problems in their own country, like if there's a dictatorship people often leave the country for a better life.


Also, it's not like no-one in Britain ever immigrates to different countries, in the early 1900's a lot of Scottish citizens migrated to Canada and the US, and nowadays many travel to Australia and warmer countries. (Don't know what they're thinking, Scotland can have the weather of 4 seasons in 1 day.  -Snows, Rains, Sunny etc.)

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OK enough off-topic rambling. :>

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The benefits system is criticised a LOT, especially by Brits, but the people on it are not always in the wrong for being on the system.

Disability benefits are a good thing, of course, but I wouldn't say children who aren't at the age where they would be able to work should get it,
 (I don't actually know if this happens I don't know much about the benefit system really.) But those children who the costs to look after are high due to their disabilities do deserve some kind of benefits to allow for their care.
I have a similar feel for adults with disabilities, if it's a disability that flat out makes it impossible for you to work then fair enough,
But if your disability just means it's hard for you to walk properly, that's no reason that you can't work at home, or at an office.     


Unemployment benefits are again touchy, because there are some who do want to work but for whatever reason are currently unemployed and are on the benefit system, and also there are those who CAN work, but choose NOT to work, as they can make a similar amount, or close to the same by being unemployed as to when they are employed.

I remember reading something like that recently, where a couple were making X amount off of benefits. (17k per year or something similar I think.) And they'd worked out that if one of them started working they would only make an extra £500 per year or a tiny amount like that, so they didn't bother and kept the benefits.

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Jamie about that picture; assuming all of those cases are 100% true - I kinda doubt it, it's not very accurate anyway as it's just showing the far extreme cases.

Kind of like saying that because Labour are right-wing that they're all Nazi's. Which they aren't if you were wondering, no matter what your political stance is >.>

(That analogy actually impressed me because it works in 2 ways.)   JS.

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Maybe the government could reintroduce Means Testing, even though the tests were hated so much when they were first introduced   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_test    if you don't know what a means test is.

Whilst the tests were unpopular and strict, they work, and assure that only those who deserve the benefits are given benefits.

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Ok, I'll try and conclude this essay. --- I really need to stop writing posts, I always end up with these tl;dr things that are way too long, Lol.
 

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• Benefits, generally speaking are good things and without them Britain would probably be in a worse state than it is in now, even though it involves the government spending money perhaps on those who don't deserve any.
• If you're not eligible for benefits, or at least shouldn't be eligible for them, benefits shouldn't really effect you unless you are working, as then your taxes go somewhat to the benefits system.
• The NHS is a part of the benefits system, so I suppose if you've ever been treated or aided by the NHS you've benefited.   
• Immigrants are a boon for the country and aid in taking up jobs that otherwise would remain empty, and as such give the government money through taxes, also, a reasonable amount of immigrants tend to leave the UK after a few years (Particularly Irish ones as the economy there bounces around a lot so they tend to go back when it settles at a high point.)
• The Government need to work on improving the system however so that those who get the benefits are those who deserve them.

^ Have I benefited if I recieved treatment from the NHS, even though my mum runs the hospital I got treated in? D:

When I worked at Currys Warehouse the Polish (or maybe it was Latvian) women told me everything is more expensive to buy there and they get paid around 4x less as well.

what aggravates me, is when employers here REFUSE to employ british, for varying reasons, including some british being stereotyped pure lazy, and that eastern european immigrants work longer hours for less money!
i cant even get a job picking flowers/vegetables at the farms nearby!

@ alm - my disabilities on their own do not affect my mobility a huge amount, but on really bad days, i cant when they all combine. and when you are/were assessed for both dla (disability living allowance) it was based on the worst day you could have. and tbh if i could get a job - i would, however a lot of companies seem to see my health bit and drop it like a hot potato, as, even though the legislation has helped theres still a lot of stereotyping and not full equal chances to get the jobs, when theyre even available.

i do not want to live my life on benefits (though i do look forward to the day i can have them come thru, finally(!) ) but our economy, benefits system etc, really doesnt give me much choice.

@hey im jamie, i have benefited a tonne from the nhs, even with major shortfalls in treatment, or complete lack of! - when they updated their systems in the pain management clinic, i had been put on automatic discharge! and never even notified. which is why i was never sent another appointment, and never EVER got my physio - of which i now need to do privately ---- its in situations like these, the benefits system is great.

ofc when used for the right purposes...