Consentus
Clan Forum => Debates => Debates archive => Topic started by: Allequiem on November 09, 2011, 06:54:45
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I was thinking about the United States Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights.
It prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances."
I'm specifically targetting the aspect of Freedom of Speech.
Anything against considered "extremeist" or against the norm, racism, excplicit language, and so many things are censored on TV, and in public. You get in trouble for saying certain things. There are laws stopping people saying things you may think about things.
Freedom of speech is the right to express your opinion without being censored or restricted.
Having a law RESTRICTING things you can say? Aye, that cannot be Freedom of Speech.
So what would you call that?
It is obvious that in no country, there is no absolute Freedom of Speech, but the United States was built on this constitution. How can this be so?
I'd love to know some American's views on this, as I'm merely an 18 year old kid in England.
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Do you want American views only?
If so then I'll refrain from giving my opinion.
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We also have the right to kick British soldiers out of our houses during the Revolutionary War. I don't think the Constitution means much to normal Americans, it's just a set of laws for the lawmakers I guess.
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In all honesty, they really do not enforce that very much. I have heard of ONE case in my whole life of someone getting in trouble for saying something to someone else. I mean I hear people swearing at each other like crazy in public I hear a white person say the word Nigger a LOT (my school is stupid) and whatever else.
We do have freedom of speech to some extent. The only reason we DO have the bill of rights is because the Constituiton would have never been ratified if there would not have been one. Back when there was the origional 13 colonies, 9 of the 13 had to raitify it for it to become law.
But yeah, I don't think there is honestly much restriction to the freedom of speech. I mean if you watch TV over here for a day you'd understand.
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I think the term 'freedom of speech' has changed from 'saying whatever you want' to 'saying whatever you want but in a civilised, non-offensive way' which is okay but sometimes the offensiveness has to come in for somebody to get the message.
I think racism and prejudice are wrong - always. I also hate how freedom is speech is limited to people who are younger - children and (sometimes) teenagers are condemned for swearing and/or saying nasty things, yet if the adults said what they said they wouldn't be condemned which I see as a form of ageism. It's hypocritical.
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I live in America.
Don't kid yourself, everything in censored. The media, and anything you say in real life.
The way I understood it used to be, was that you could pretty much say whatever you wanted unless it caused a dangerous situation, for example shouting BOMB on an airplane...or FIRE in a crowded movie theatre.
HOWEVER, recently, with all this crap (and yes, I think its crap) about cyber bullying and teen suicide (not diminishing the importance of suicide or related topics, but) a rule has been put into effect in NewJersey, where I live, and specifically targets school-aged children, mostly in high school....
its a Harrassment, Intimidation and Bullying policy, and basically...if I call someone a whore or a skank or say that I'm going to kill someone even in jest with a friend...(you know, everyone has said something to the effect of "Oh, I'm so going to kill you for doing that" to a friend jokingly...) SO, if I did do this and a teacher heard it...I'm written up and submitted to an investigation because it "hurts the other person's feelings"
In addition to this happening in school: If I were to say something like that OUTSIDE of school and a teacher happened to be in the same place, they have to report that also and indicate who/where/what was said etc. and again, I am submitted to an investigation and liable for criminal charges.
Also, the person who was "offended" by you saying this has no say in whether or not they want charges to be pressed against you, etc. Depending on the circumstances and how serious it was viewed as being.
There is no such thing as Freedom of Speech in America. And this is not even considering things like the US Patriot Act --following 9/11 terrorist attacks. We have the illusion of free speech 'cause most people are living in ignorance. And you know what they say: Ignorance is bliss.
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I will be Swedish and diplomatically state that moderation in the matter is the best way to go. There are ditches on both sides. Freedom of speech is a given right and it is just as given that you shouldn't treat people degradingly. Unfortunately, the two don't always accommodate. It's a very delicate matter though.
One of the main problems with censorship is that it conserves prejudice. I'll use the Swastika symbol as an example. In Sweden it's illegal to use it in e.g. art, due to its links to Nazism. As long as we have that kind of legaslation, we are conserving its links to Nazism and giving the Nazis a symbol they can always use. These kind of symbols need to be set in motion instead of being fixated. Whenever something is censored, it is also given a fixated value.
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I will be Swedish and diplomatically state that moderation in the matter is the best way to go. There are ditches on both sides. Freedom of speech is a given right and it is just as given that you shouldn't treat people degradingly. Unfortunately, the two don't always accommodate. It's a very delicate matter though.
One of the main problems with censorship is that it conserves prejudice. I'll use the Swastika symbol as an example. In Sweden it's illegal to use it in e.g. art, due to its links to Nazism. As long as we have that kind of legaslation, we are conserving its links to Nazism and giving the Nazis a symbol they can always use. These kind of symbols need to be set in motion instead of being fixated. Whenever something is censored, it is also given a fixated value.
The Swastika symbol mirrored is commonly seen in Japan because it's a symbol for Buddhist temples or something.
Just thought I should point that out.
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Yh we were learning this in Religious Ed:3. The swastika is an old Hindu/Buddhist symbol meaning unconquerable, and in some cases; peace. :3
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Yh we were learning this in Religious Ed:3. The swastika is an old Hindu/Buddhist symbol meaning unconquerable, and in some cases; peace. :3
^^
Exactly why Hitler chose it
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I live in America.
Don't kid yourself, everything in censored. The media, and anything you say in real life.
The way I understood it used to be, was that you could pretty much say whatever you wanted unless it caused a dangerous situation, for example shouting BOMB on an airplane...or FIRE in a crowded movie theatre.
HOWEVER, recently, with all this crap (and yes, I think its crap) about cyber bullying and teen suicide (not diminishing the importance of suicide or related topics, but) a rule has been put into effect in NewJersey, where I live, and specifically targets school-aged children, mostly in high school....
its a Harrassment, Intimidation and Bullying policy, and basically...if I call someone a whore or a skank or say that I'm going to kill someone even in jest with a friend...(you know, everyone has said something to the effect of "Oh, I'm so going to kill you for doing that" to a friend jokingly...) SO, if I did do this and a teacher heard it...I'm written up and submitted to an investigation because it "hurts the other person's feelings"
In addition to this happening in school: If I were to say something like that OUTSIDE of school and a teacher happened to be in the same place, they have to report that also and indicate who/where/what was said etc. and again, I am submitted to an investigation and liable for criminal charges.
Also, the person who was "offended" by you saying this has no say in whether or not they want charges to be pressed against you, etc. Depending on the circumstances and how serious it was viewed as being.
There is no such thing as Freedom of Speech in America. And this is not even considering things like the US Patriot Act --following 9/11 terrorist attacks. We have the illusion of free speech 'cause most people are living in ignorance. And you know what they say: Ignorance is bliss.
Firstly, "There is no such thing as Freedom of Speech in America." WRONG.
I can understand why we can't use certain words in the media.
Offensive language and swearing isn't good for children.
And I also take Cyber bullying and harassment quite seriously.
Which I think NEEDED to be in forced.
If you're joking with your friends, they won't do anything major to you.
Probably just say not to do it again.
Aslong as we don't go around disrupting the peace or harassing someone; we have our freedom.
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for now.
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Partially related, but maybe completely unrelated; Who loves Anonymous?<3
"You can't arrest an idea" <3.
I quite like being ignorant in certain situations; I'd rather not know, than know and suffer for it.